He was at the most 21 and possibly younger than simply whenever their child Joanna came to be. She may well had been the eldest of all of the pupils the guy fathered of the their certain mistresses.
John was born in December 1167
1187 Summer - John for the France whenever Chateauroux was being besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 29 - Henry returns in order to England, perhaps with John when you look at the tow 1188 June - Henry delivers John to , crosses out of 1189 Summer twelve - John in the Ce People's when disarmed by the Henry's acquisition, then John fled otherwise is actually led away for coverage 1189 July six - Henry We passes away inside France 1189 Aug. https://brightwomen.net/tr/haitili-kadinlar/ a dozen - Richard brings John back into The united kingdomt that have him 1189 Aug. 29 - John hitched so you're able to Isabelle away from Gloucester on Marlebridge 1189 September. step 3 - Richard crowned on Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard sends John on Wales in order to subdue the rebellious Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you can and you may forced on the oath never to place foot into the England for three ages 1190 Summer - Richard continues on campaign [John vacation trips their oath] For our aim, it is believed that one several months, therefore the most likely returning to Joanna getting become developed, 's the 1187-nine period. 1187 - John uses around the entire year for the France 1188 - John have returned to The united kingdomt for the January, but of the june is distributed returning to France, where the guy seems to have stayed 1189 - John seems to be into the France January - August, coming back so you can The united kingdomt during the August in preparation to have their relationship on the 29 Aug. If the John made no more unrecorded efficiency so you're able to The united kingdomt, it appears that the guy spent about 80% from their date of January 1187 until their marriage, in France . He had been will eventually given the Condition off Mortain, for the (prior to Richard's coronation).
The above mentioned guidance, considering the months and simple fact that Joanna try lead to England out-of France for the 1203 getting her wedding in order to Llywelyn, lends credence toward indisputable fact that Joanna along with her mom have been out-of French/Norman provider.
Given plus John's really-known philandering during this period, here appears to be many people on part out-of mom off Joanna!
My early in the day blog post gave what you to definitely Paget showed that they was Clemence de Dauntsey, whom hitched Nicholas de- Verdun. We believed that this is the Nicholas and Clementia to exactly who Henry 111 offered new child custody away from Susanna (because the an effective hostage) into the 1228. After yet another much time search yet not, I’m able to get a hold of no trace off a good Clemence de Dauntsey in this new info. I did so select however, the brand new viewpoint of a single genealogist exactly who certainly said it…’ I do believe that we (the fresh new genealogists) established there try no such as individual as the Clemence de Dauntsey. That character of your own wife away from Nicholas de Verdun is an excellent blunder because of the Paget!’
I am ready to believe that completion, while the then data of one’s suggestions of one’s second Clemence turned out more fruitful.
Normandy
Clemence le Boteler was created regarding 1175 during the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Their father try Philip le Boteler (created circa 1150).
Clemence le Boteler partnered Nicholas de- Verdun when you look at the 1202 (his second spouse shortly after his marriage to help you Joan Fitz Piers. Mention, this wedding is not confirmed) on Alton, Staffordshire plus they got one youngster, Rohese de Verdun who had been produced for the 1203 otherwise 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).
If the, in fact, Joanna are the result of a beneficial liaison ranging from John and you may Clemence ce Boteler (who was aged to fourteen-15 during the time), it could had been quite difficult on Le Boteler friends locate the ideal husband to have Clemence. Indeed some 10 years violation ahead of an effective ily?) with a trusting English nobleman and you may assets owner, Nicholas de- Verdun. Making away for now the possibility that Nicholas had fallen crazy about the fresh 27 year old Clemence and you will wanted to marry her, it would was basically very important to John to add Clemence which have certain property from her own so as that she became a more glamorous prize to possess their particular future husband.